Gas Husqvarna 450 weaker than battery 80v Kobalt chainsaw. Need recommendation for better chainsaw.

[Giant Insect]

Hello,
Today, I had the displeasure of using what is advertised as a 3.2 HP gas powered chainsaw. It spins when I have it in the air (chain break off, of course,) but when I apply it to the roots I needed to cut the Husqvarna begs for mercy and the torque convertor causes the oil to smoke. OTOH: The 80v Kobalt chainsaw, which the Husqvarna was supposed to replace, has enough power (napkin math suggests ~1hp,) (wish it had a little more ) but it overheats after a few minutes of intense work. I checked the advertised displacement instead of going by the HP. The 80v battery powered saw has more power. 3.661425 cu.inches compared to 3.06 cu.inches. 60cc compared to 50.14442cc .
Now, I did triple check that everything I have control over, chain break, chain tension, gas, oil, engine rpm, was correct. Just to be clear, I've been the primary operator for a street-saw on several occasions. I know what having HP in your hands is like.

My use case is chopping through roots to create trenches for pipe or get to pipe for repair purposes. A mini-backhoe, though probably small enough, is too expensive. Hence the choice of a chainsaw.

Anyone know of a powerful gas chainsaw 18"-24"?

Thanks

PS: Links to the products for your viewing pleasure.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-80-Volt-Max-Lithium-Ion-18-in-Cordless-Electric-Chainsaw-1-Battery/1001772692

450 Rancher Chainsaw

Second generation powerful all-round saw for people who value professional qualities in a saw. Starts easily also with a slower pull, comes with slimmer saw

www.husqvarna.com

 

[Oakie]

What torque converter, there is no such thing in a chainsaw.
If it low on power it might be related to the chain not being oiled,
this will certainly cause smoke and heat, and pull the engine down
to nothing, its like driving with the brakes on, how far would that get anyone.

 

[Oakie]

No chainsaw will work to cut roots buried in the ground, the chain will be blunt
in seconds.

 

[Giant Insect]

Pictured above is what I'd call a torque converter. It's the big metal part near the center of the video. It transfers the power from the engine into the chain causing the chain to spin.

No chainsaw will work to cut roots buried in the ground, the chain will be blunt in seconds.

Well, actually it's a bit longer. But yes, ordinary steel chains dull rather quickly. It helps if you can dig up the roots and then cut them. But often times that's not possible. OTOH, a carbide chain will lost much much longer.

 

[Oakie]

View attachment 1307
Pictured above is what I'd call a torque converter. It's the big metal part near the center of the video. It transfers the power from the engine into the chain causing the chain to spin.



Well, actually it's a bit longer. But yes, ordinary steel chains dull rather quickly. It helps if you can dig up the roots and then cut them. But often times that's not possible. OTOH, a carbide chain will lost much much longer.

Have you found the issue with the saw yet, why its not pulling the chain,
why there is smoke is coming from, the chain oil won't smoke unless the chain
is way too tight, you also get smoke when there is not enough oil and the chain
is almost stuck to the bar, then what oil is will smoke, in either of these situations
the engine won't last long, these saws are designed to cut with a sharp chain
and a well lubricated and non restricted bar, anything else and you won't have
a saw for long.

I must get me a carbide chain for emergency use, they should handle the odd nail
or rub in the dirt, to get one out of a tight spot.

 

[Giant Insect]

I did try loosening the chain without improvement. I also tried changing the chain. The chainsaw did have oil in it. So I do not think there was anything mechanically wrong with it. It was returned to the store as defective. I am of the opinion that Husqvarna was listing the chainsaw's peak HP, not it's real HP, hence my question was not about "Is it a defective chainsaw?" but rather "Do you know of a better one?"

This is the first time I've ever seen evidence of a manufacturer mis-listing the HP. Up until now, I've been limited to reading through tool catalogues (mostly Northern Tool and Equipment), comparing gas HP, with electric HP, and hydraulic HP, and how much HP it would take to turn electric generators and hydraulic pumps. The calculations are all off; and not by the little bit you'd expect from hose or wire loses. I could probably pull out an old catalogue (they don't list gas HP anymore saying it's not representative of an engines true performance), or maybe go to their website and write something up to show you what I'm talking about if you're curious.

 

[Oakie]

Better to use the Kw figures they state, but torque is also a great indicator,
some of them make it very difficult to find the torque rating of their engines,
for good reason, some are re a lot better than others.

Even so, a Husqvarna 450 should have enough power to cut roots,
people are using them to cut 12 inch logs all day long for firewood.

 

[Oakie]

There are plenty of saws to chose from.
Echo would be my choice, they 590 model is cheap for the
power, they are a little heavy, but unless you buy a high end
Stihl you won't get much that is lighter and has good power.
You probably do not need a long bar, so 18 inch will work well,
less teeth to sharpen too, I would go shorter but I do not think
the 590 comes with less than 18, so that would mean more money
for say a 16 inch bar.

 

[Oakie]

Here is the 590 's bigger brother, same size and weight, just more power,
a metal clutch cover, metal handle, a rim drive instead of a sprocket,
a different carb and the engine differs too, its more expensive than the
590, but worth it if you want the upgraded features.
This guy uses an 18 inch and a 16 inch on his 620.
If you want power, not too expensive, and a simple to work
on saw, then the 590 or 620 Echo are very good choices.

 

[Giant Insect]

Actually, I do not care about weight. Chainsaw's are light compared to a shovel full of wet dirt. It's price/performance.

Because it took so long for someone to reply here, I ended up looking up chainsaws myself, but I have no idea what brand is good.
What do you know about Holzfforma? They seem to offer good price/performance.
Also, is echo still a Japanese brand?

Regarding why I'd need more HP, it's simple, I'm trying to cut through dirt. So, if I don't want to dull the blade quickly on the dirt, then I have to put a bit of pressure against the saw so that it pulls the dirt up instead of dulling against it. Now I could just gently lay the chain against the roots and ground, but it really doesn't do much. I mean, I'm using a chainsaw the way it was *not* intended to be used because there basically isn't a tool that fits what I'm doing unless I go up to mini-excavators.

 

[Oakie]

Yes, Echo is Japanese, well made saws.
Holzfforma, I only know what I read, and for me no way
would I buy one. I see people using their cylinders on saws,
I have yet to see two of the look the same, they are a hit or
miss outfit, you could be lucky and get a saw that runs, or you
could get one that is nothing but trouble, I read recently where a
man said his 660 after second tank, started spitting out
steel and fuel out the muffler, totally destroyed the cylinder and piston.
Its reply #44 on the third page, read from reply #40 as others commented.

Stihl chinese clone saws - Page 2

Stihl chinese clone saws - Page 2

forestryforum.com

People buy them, and have to actually go looking for OEM parts to put
on them to make them run, that says a lot.

 

[Oakie]

Regarding what brand is good, Stihl, Husqvarna, Echo are all good.
Would I put a good chainsaw into cut buried in dirt roots, no way.
I would buy a brand name second hand saw, and use it to bore cut the roots
after I dug the soil off the top, I would bore cut all the roots without cutting through
them into the soil, then cut through them as long as my chain stayed sharp, then
sharpen it again and have another go, I would only do this if no other tools were available.

How thick are the roots you need to cut, and in what situation are you cutting them,
if your removing them to get trench through them to pour concrete for a foundation,
then they actually need to come out completely, if you leave them in they will rot and
anything on top of them will start to sink.

 

[Oakie]

 

[Giant Insect]

How thick are the roots you need to cut, and in what situation are you cutting them,
if your removing them to get trench through them to pour concrete for a foundation,
then they actually need to come out completely, if you leave them in they will rot and
anything on top of them will start to sink.

Actually it's for irrigation pipe and conduit for wire, not concrete. Normally, you can shovel out the dirt around the roots, but sometimes, the roots are so thick that it's impossible. Their size varies from what can (and often times is), taken out by a lopper cutter to 12 inches thick for just one root.
Oftentimes, they need removed because they literally grab a sprinkler head or pipe and crush it. Obviously, this is for maintenance and repair. I could upload something (later) if you'd like to see for yourself.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

ANY chainsaw- for cutting tree roots in the ground is not the ideal tool for the job, chain speed alone means a 1/2 second ground contact has dulled most all the teeth of the cutters instantly.
Hydraulic shears would be much better suited for small trenching.

 

[Oakie]

Agree with the above, there has to be a better tool, like hydraulic shears,
or even an electric hammer with a sharp spade like cutter.
As above, a split second will dull every cutter, no amount of revving
or power in a chainsaw will make up for dull cutters.

 

[Tyy]

A chainsaw is not designed to be efficiently or safely used to cut underground roots . An abrasive disc saw or reciprocating blade saw can be utilized better . A 12" root is best removed with a backhoe or excavator . Also a 450 Rancher is a 55 cc saw . The 590 Echo Timber Wolf is 60 cc class saw so not a fair apples to apples comparison . The Echo 490 is a better comparision . Their both Home owner grade saws . P.S. The torgue converter the op spoke of is the clutch / drum , as for smoke a overly tight chain caused by dirt extrusion from cutting underground roots contaminated with dirt & sand . Shall , no doubt cause the source of less than quality performance and smoke lol . No chainsaw , even world class should be used for this type of work period !

 

[Giant Insect]

View attachment cut-root-live.mov
Here's a recording of me using a used chainsaw blade to cut through a pine tree root. The blade is steel and is used.
(Technical details: It's an mov file from an iphone. If you can't play it, tell me what your device accepts and I'll transcode and upload for your convince.)
Here's a picture of the roots cut in just one day all with the same blade.



Here's a picture of a tree branch that was cut after all those roots. Notice, it's not burnt (the little black areas are dirty parts of the branch which is rotting a bit from within.)
View attachment underbrush-3-inch-fix.mov
Here's an example of a place where big equipment couldn't get into without destroying the underbrush. Again many of the places a piece of big equipment could not get to are where we need to work. A better example would have been in between two houses.
View attachment leak.mov
Here's an example of root clumping. It's another good reason to have something that will chew away the roots instead of trying to find a place to get down and around them to cut them.


Here's another root that was cut with a chainsaw. It was done some time ago.


So, you can clearly conclude that a chainsaw CAN CUT ROOTS!

Now, I'm not the boss. And the act of cutting roots with a chainsaw predates my existence. I asked for your help, not a lecture. Yet, almost every comment is about how I'm not doing it right or I'm lying through my teeth about chainsaws being able to cut roots.
Thus, having provided sufficient proof that I'm both telling the truth (chainsaws can cut roots), and that large equipment is not desirable for both cost and size reasons, I'd appreciate if we can get back to the question I originally asked.

Thanks!

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

View attachment 1317
Here's a recording of me using a used chainsaw blade to cut through a pine tree root. The blade is steel and is used.
(Technical details: It's an mov file from an iphone. If you can't play it, tell me what your device accepts and I'll transcode and upload for your convince.)
View attachment 1319 Here's a picture of the roots cut in just one day all with the same blade.

View attachment 1320

Here's a picture of a tree branch that was cut after all those roots. Notice, it's not burnt (the little black areas are dirty parts of the branch which is rotting a bit from within.)
View attachment 1321
Here's an example of a place where big equipment couldn't get into without destroying the underbrush. Again many of the places a piece of big equipment could not get to are where we need to work. A better example would have been in between two houses.
View attachment 1322
Here's an example of root clumping. It's another good reason to have something that will chew away the roots instead of trying to find a place to get down and around them to cut them.
View attachment 1323
View attachment 1324
Here's another root that was cut with a chainsaw. It was done some time ago.


So, you can clearly conclude that a chainsaw CAN CUT ROOTS!

Now, I'm not the boss. And the act of cutting roots with a chainsaw predates my existence. I asked for your help, not a lecture. Yet, almost every comment is about how I'm not doing it right or I'm lying through my teeth about chainsaws being able to cut roots.
Thus, having provided sufficient proof that I'm both telling the truth (chainsaws can cut roots), and that large equipment is not desirable for both cost and size reasons, I'd appreciate if we can get back to the question I originally asked.

Thanks!

Nobody said a chainsaw cannot do it- most said or implied it was not the ideal tool to be doing it with.
If you are happy doing what you are doing and making dirty sawdust- carry on doing it, a good sharp saw chain on a bar (not a blade) will throw chips not dirty dust.

 

[Tyy]

ANY chainsaw- for cutting tree roots in the ground is not the ideal tool for the job, chain speed alone means a 1/2 second ground contact has dulled most all the teeth of the cutters instantly.
Hydraulic shears would be much better suited for small trenching.

Exactly Bob , also the inherent hazard of kickback within a confined area .